“It’s not good for Europe to become a permanent security vassal in the United States.” JD Vance says in a phone conversation with Unherd on Monday, it is his first major interview with European outlets since taking office as vice president. The background is a week of financial market disruption caused by Trump’s “liberation day” tariffs.
The decision to apply (and partially withdraw) large tariffs to European allies, combined with a barrage of harsh statements about Europe from Vance, is both a public and a leaked private message, which makes me wonder if America is still considered a friend.
Vance’s answer: Yes, European leaders are taking on a more independent role on the international stage, ready to respond more sensitively to their voters, especially when it comes to the issue of immigration.
“I love Europe,” Vance tells me in an extensive interview from his office at Westwing, introducing the diplomatic side that is always front and not central. “I love European people. I have repeatedly said that I don’t think American culture can be separated from European culture. We are the product of philosophy, theology, and of course the migration patterns that came out of Europe, where America was launched.”
European leaders are another issue. Take Ukrainian President Voldimi Zelensky. In a recent interview with a 60-minute American television program, he accused Vance of “justifying in some way” Russia’s invasion of his country.
Vance opposes this by referring to his condemnation of Moscow’s actions since 2022. But he adds: “We have tried to understand that if we want to end a conflict, both Russians and Ukrainians need to look at their strategic goals. We need to try to understand that Ukrainians are trying to get out of the conflict.”
“I think it’s a bit ridiculous to tell Zelensky (in the US) government that he is currently defending the entire government and the war effort together. Such rhetoric is “certainly not productive,” says Vance.
Beyond Ukraine, the US vice president is worried that European leaders still do not consider the 21st century realities of immigration, integration and security.
“It’s not good for Europe to become a permanent security vassal of the United States.”
Vance said: “We’re very frustrated – we, the president, and certainly the whole Trump administration – the people of Europe continue to cry out for smarter economic and migration policies, and European leaders continue to carry on these elections, offering the people of Europe the opposition of what they think they’ve voted for.”
Immigration is at the heart of Vance’s obvious frustration with European leaders. He argues that public boundary policies, like the United States, take over from highs, are the trust of toxic democracies. As Vance points out, “As people continue to seek less migration, the whole democratic project in the West is falling apart, and they continue to be rewarded by their leaders with more migration.”
Security is another blind spot in Europe, Vance says. “The reality is that it’s dull to say that, but it’s true too – that throughout my life, the entire security infrastructure in Europe has been subsidized by the United States.” As a quarter century ago, “I can say that Europe had many vibrant troops, at least the troops that could protect their homeland.”
Vance fast forward to today, saying, “Most European countries do not have an army that can provide reasonable defense.” Certainly, “The British are the obvious exception, French is the obvious exception, and Paul is the obvious exception. But in a way, it is an exception that certifies the rule that European leaders are fundamentally invested in security and that must change.”
Vance’s message to the continent is the same as that delivered by Charles de Gaulle at the height of the Cold War, he says. Degaard “loved the United States of America, but (he) realized that I certainly knew: it’s not the interests of Europe, not the interests of America, but that Europe will become a permanent security vassal of the United States.”
What the Vice President didn’t reveal before this interview is that he wants to see a strong, independent Europe, as it could serve as a better check on American foreign policy failures.
He states: “I don’t think that Europe is more independent, bad for the US – that’s good for the US. I think it’s just going back in history. Frankly, the British and French were certainly right in their differences with Eisenhower about the Suez Canal.”
Vance also hints at his own experience as a combat veteran of the Iraq War. “What I know a little more personally: I think many European countries are right about our invasion of Iraq. Frankly, if Europeans had been a little more independent and wanted to stand up a little more, they could have saved the whole world from the strategic disaster that was the US-led invasion of Iraq.”
Conclusion: “I don’t want to do anything that the Europeans tell them to do to them. I don’t think it’s in their interests, nor do I think it’s in our interests.”
Speaking especially about the UK, Vance has a big emphasis on where President Trump’s affection occupys.
“We certainly work very hard with the Kiel Starmer government,” Vance says. “The President really loves England. He loves the Queen. He admires the King and loves it. It’s a very important relationship. And he’s a businessman and has many important business relationships in (UK). But I think it’s much deeper than that. And of course, basically America is the UK.” So, “Yes, I think we’re likely to come to a big deal that will be in the best interests of both countries.”
Other European states are likely to reach new trade arrangements, but mountaineering could be steeper. Already, “In the UK, there is much more mutual relationship than, say, Germany. While they love Germans, they rely heavily on exports to the US, but it’s pretty tough on many American companies that want to export to Germany.”
The administration’s roadster will be “fair,” Vance says. “I think it will lead to a lot of positive trade relations with Europe. And we see Europe very well as our side. It’s an alliance where Europeans are a little more independent, and our relationship between security and trade reflects that.”
With financial markets being whipped up in recent weeks, it was not clear what success would look like from a regime perspective. I ask Vance how he judges tariff policy in the long term. “What we want to see is a lower trade deficit. Really on the whole,” Vance says. “Sometimes, the trade deficit makes sense. America doesn’t produce bananas, so obviously they’ll import bananas rather than export them.
However, the entire Status Coo system is unbearable from a White House perspective. “It was led by the global trading system,” complained Vance. “There’s a massive and sustained trade deficit across product categories, and the majority of countries actually use the US (home market) to absorb surplus exports. That’s bad for us, bad for American manufacturers.
But before he became a politician, Vance was a venture capitalist. Has he had a heart-wrenching moment in recent weeks seen his own portfolio sinking to red? He can hear f.
“Implementing a new system is essentially going to make financial markets uneasy,” says Vance. “The president is very consistent that this is a long-term play… right now you have to be sensitive to what the business community is saying to you, what workers are saying to you, what the bond market is telling you. These are all the variables we need to deal with.
But Vance says the administration cannot govern just on the stock market. “There’s no plan you know. It’s never fully implemented… We’re very aware of the fact that no one else lives in a complex world that’s static. But the basic policy is a readjustment of world trade, and I think the President remains very clear about it.”
Even if tariff adjustments and delays appear to have healed the markets and allies, for now the Trump administration is dependent on applying the Shock Therapy 2.0 brand to the international system. Of course, the goal is almost the opposite of the original treatment. Shock Therapy 1.0 went to the world to pursue America and pursue Washington on a military adventure, taking on a neoliberal globalization. This aims to reverse both outcomes.
However, changing not only policy orientation, but how it is communicated, may not be as good as getting through change. Do you think he has too many tweets? In Europe, he frowned in Europe when he spent time on a Twitter dispute with podcaster Rory Stewart.
Vance laughs. “There are many blessings to this job. One of the unquestionable drawbacks is that I live very much in the bubble. I am surrounded by secret service agents. It is very difficult for random people to get close to me. myself.”
Everyone knew that the Trump Vance administration’s commitment to turning the page in globalization would work deeper than allies and enemies could imagine. As Vance says, “We’re not on anyone’s side, we’re on the side of America.”
